On Monday a number of us from Presbytery attended a workshop run by the General Trustees. It was a very helpful day, with discussions about funds, building works, attestation of records, inspection of buildings, renting out manses and the disposal of buildings. The main purpose was to help Presbyteries understand their roles and responsibilities as well as those of Kirk Sessions and the GTs. We also were reminded of the role of the Presbytery Buildings Officer in helping support congregations to make good decisions about their properties.
Here are some of the highlights from the day:
Attestation of Records
Property registers and manse condition schedules must be prepared each year by the Kirk Session and attested by Presbytery. Over the pandemic years, attestations were relaxed, but now the opposite is the case. The GTs want to ensure that Kirk Sessions are fulfilling their responsibilities with regards to their buildings and these documents are key to that. We know that a lot of work goes into keeping them up to date and we are grateful for the effort of Fabric/Property Conveners in doing that. If your congregation is struggling to maintain these records, speak to us and let's see if we can help.
Five-yearly inspections
Our Presbytery Buildings Officer (PBO), Ian Murray, is working his way around Presbytery catching up on inspections of buildings. Whilst we no longer have the system of the Presbytery doing a quinquennial visit (replaced by Congregational Action Plans), we are still required to review each building every five years. The report sets out the work which should be undertaken in relation to the building and it is the duty of Presbytery to make sure that the congregation develops a programme of works which aligns with the inspection. A new application for building works will be introduced from 1 January 2026, and we understand that the five-yearly report will need to be included with the application. This is to ensure that the Kirk Session is prioritising the right work e.g. fixing the roof before decorating the hall.
Presbytery Buildings Officer
If you are thinking about making an application for building works or simply undertaking any work on your buildings, the first thing you should do is get in touch with our PBO. He can help you with developing your ideas and determining what the best approach will be. He can carry out the five-yearly inspection and his comments will form part of the application.
The GTs emphasised the importance of Kirk Sessions taking on board the recommendations of the PBO, particularly before engaging with outside contractors.
Applications for Building Works
As a wee reminder, here are the limits set for applying to Presbytery and the GTs for permission to carry out works:
Presbytery requires that all proposed alterations, together with any repairs exceeding £5,000 per annum for Buildings in Category B and exceeding £20,000 per annum for Category A Buildings (see Presbytery Mission Plan) should be submitted to the Property and Finance Committee in good time for its meeting, along with relevant forms and plans. All alterations and any repairs costing in excess of £50,000, including expenditure on repairs over the preceding three years and the coming three years, are required to be transmitted by Presbytery to the General Trustees for their approval.
You can find more about this in the Presbytery Yearbook (pg 4/5).
It is really important that permission is sought in advance of carrying out the work and that Kirk Sessions come to Presbytery before going to the GTs. The GTs will not agree to work being done without an extract minute from Presbytery.
Application forms should be sent to the Property and Finance Convener (Mike Leys - mikeleys41@gmail.com) and the Presbytery Office, together with all the supporting documentation. The GTs mentioned that they do have issues with forms not being filled in properly - please ask for help if you need it!
We'll circulate the new form when it is shared with us.
Renting out manses
We had a discussion around the challenges which exist in renting out manses. Evicting tenants to make way for a minister to live in the manse is proving difficult and in some cases court action has had to be pursued. And unfortunately there are times when the property is left in a terrible state or when it has been the centre of criminal activity. The upshot is that the GTs are very reluctant to grant permission for a manse to be rented out. Manses which are surplus to requirements should be sold. And it was helpful to note that the interest received from the capital of such a sale can often exceed the rental income which is lost.
Insurance
We talked about the transfer of insurance to Howdens, although nothing changes from a practical perspective in terms of the team you are dealing with, and the importance of making sure buildings are property insured. In addition, there was an emphasis on unoccupied buildings and the need to follow any conditions set by the insurer.
Disposal of buildings
One surprising fact was shared on the day. In 2024, the proceeds from the sale of buildings (including churches, halls and manses), exceeded the valuation of those same properties by 24%. Obviously, that's in the round, and we know that there are some cases in our Presbytery where buildings have been sold for much less than the valuation.
There is guidance on the disposal of buildings, which you can find here: https://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/about-us/our-structure/building-and-property-resources.
Once a Kirk Session has made the decision to dispose of a building (and the Kirk Session has to do this even if the building is categorised 'B' in the Presbytery Mission Plan), the GTs will give an instruction to the Law Department to begin the process of sale. There is considerable support available for congregations in the sale process, although there was also recognition that staffing constraints meant that things were taking longer than usual. However, it was also pointed out that we have considerable experience within the Law Department in handling the sale of church buildings and halls, which can become very complicated. The GTs confirmed that they will pass on feedback to the Law Department around the importance of keeping in contact with congregations, even if there's nothing to report.
Rob Lee spoke about off the market transfers and again, there is a helpful document outlining the process which is followed by the GTs in this regard: Off the market transfer guidance. It was noted that there has been a lot of negative press around this particular aspect of the sale of properties and the GTs are keen to try and put out some good news stories where the sale of a building to a local group has been successful.
Funds
One final note, if your congregation has money in the revenue account of the Consolidated Fabric Fund, make sure that you are drawing it down and using it annually. This money can be used for non-fabric purposes provided that aligns with the Five Marks of Mission, as well as being used for fabric purposes e.g. insurance. It can be used for Giving to Grow contributions. The GTs are keen to see more of this money being used.
Here ends the whistlestop tour. There'll be more to follow in the coming months but in the meantime, please do use the resources that are available to you when it comes to property. It's better to be in touch early and to get the advice that you need. If you have any questions, please just ask.
Rev Stella